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#1
Sep 2, '13, 7:21 pm
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Original sin? What's it all about?
Hey everyone,
I'm wondering if someone can help me with Catholic view on original sin. I'm a student studying theology, and would really appreciate if someone could answer the following questions. I know some of them are a bit basic, but i would really appreciate actual answers rather then direction to various materials, etc. What is original sin exactly? is it inherited guilt or an inherited nature? Where exactly does it come from and how it is transmitted? Why is original sin significant? As in, what are it's consequences? How does it differ to personal sin? Is every single person born with it? What about Mary? Or babies? How are we cleansed of original sin? what role does baptism play? What is the effect of Jesus' death and resurrection on original sin? Blessings 
Last edited by michellerose27; Sep 2, '13 at 7:34 pm. 
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#2
Sep 2, '13, 8:01 pm
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Re: Original sin? What's it all about?
I struggle with the concept of Original Sin as well. I am sure there
is more to it, but the notion of being held accountable for something that someone else did is incomprehensible to me.
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#3
Sep 2, '13, 8:45 pm
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Re: Original sin? What's it all about?
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When you get hired at a job, and they say, do not bring your spouses to work bc in the past we have had some situations, that oh my. If you do bring your spouses and a situation breaks out, you will get fired. Now remember you probably have a clean record, just like when your born, but bc those before you did something that they weren't suppose, now you must pay for those broken dishes. You see adamm and eve represented humanity whether we like it or not. When they ate from the forbidden tree, God put his foot down and with it some serious rules. Was it right? Hmm, it all depends who you ask. But he is our father, our lord, our God. All that we can do is be better individuals than yesterday and the day before.
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#4
Sep 2, '13, 8:51 pm
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Re: Original sin? What's it all about?
God seems to see us as individuals and as part of a collective.
With Abraham, through Abraham's obedience and faithfulness, God blessed numerous generations, though they did nothing to merit it, themselves. Jesus also gave his life, though innocent, to pay for the souls of many of the guilty. How fair was that? Wouldn't it have been more fair to let each person pay for his own sins, accordingly? To our way of thinking, it would be. To God, he thought it would be better, otherwise. Now, we (as humans) may say to ourselves that God's way of thinking, punishing humanity for the actions of one or two, rewarding humanity for the actions of one or two, is "unfair". However, we have been told different times in the Bible that God does not think like man. It's my understanding that original sin is the sin we have due to the sins of Adam and Eve. The effects of original sin are removed through baptism. Original sin is inherited guilt AND inherited nature, tendency towards sin called concupiscence. Original sin is very significant. Due to the effects of original sin, we lost both the natural and preternatural gifts. Before, we would never die, get sick, etc. After sin, we did. Before sin, we had certain other abilities beyond the physical body which were lost. Original sin is inherited, not of our own doing. Personal sin is of our own doing. Both are sin and need to be removed to get into heaven. We cannot enter heaven in a state of any kind of sin. Everyone, with the exception of Mary (who was granted a special grace as the Mother of God) is born with original sin. Babies, too, are born with original sin. Baptism is the means to be cleansed from original sin. Baptism is linked to the death and resurrection of Jesus. It means we die with Christ and are born with Christ.
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#5
Sep 2, '13, 8:53 pm
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Re: Original sin? What's it all about?
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The concept that in Adam is all humanity is a tough one to start with. But once that is accepted, it becomes easier to figure out Original Sin. St. Paul affirms this in Romans 5: 12-21 and 1 Corinthians 15: 21-22. Hopefully, it becomes easier.  Please share with me your comments and questions about the above starting point. Link to the Catechism. http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm Where it says "enter search string" type paragraph and its number. Or use the table of contents above that box. It will be helpful to start with paragraphs 18-22, Practical Directions for Using This Catechism. This Catechism is not a page turner.
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#6
Sep 2, '13, 9:24 pm
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Re: Original sin? What's it all about?
Some general things, based on my understanding:
Original Sin is not inherited guilt, because I am not guilty of what my forefathers did (Just like the blind man that Jesus was asked about). When we refer to Original Sin we really are talking about the natural effects of the first sin committed by Adam and Eve. Some of the effects of the first sin are things like loss of sanctifying grace, meaning that humans are not born with the grace necessary to be saved. Concupiscence is also an effect of the first sin, which is the tendency toward sin. Original Sin is "transmitted" by our nature as humans, just like a parent's bad reputation can affect their children, or even their children's children, and so on (not a perfect example). It is significant because it cuts us off from God. God is the only one with the power to save. Original Sin differs from personal sin by that Original Sin isn't actual sin, and therefore no guilt, but rather it is the effects of the first sin. Everyone is born with Original Sin, but Mary is an exception. Because of Mary's role and relationship to Christ, we believe that God saw fit to preserve her from the stain of Original Sin from her conception (natural, by her father and mother) so that she would be a fitting vessel for the Son of God. In terms of being born, some also see John the Baptist as being "baptized" in the whom during the interaction of Mary and Elizabeth when John "leaped". They see this moment as John receiving sanctifying grace so that he would be born without sin, though he was conceived in sin. Baptism cleanses us of all sin, and infuses us with sanctifying grace, thereby saving us. "Baptism now saves you" "Believe and be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins" (to name a couple) Since Original Sin isn't actual sin, from our standpoint, the general effects of Original Sin (other than the loss of sanctifying grace), are not removed, such as concupiscence. Baptism also brings citizenship into God's Kingdom, just as circumcision did in the Old Covenant, with Baptism being the new circumcision. Christ's death and resurrection on the Cross, affecting past, present, and future as an eternal event, is what allows sins to be forgiven and allows us to receive sanctifying grace. Personal mortal sin causes us to once again lose sanctifying grace, but sincere contrition and confession allows us to be forgiven which restores sanctifying grace. This is the normative means by which sanctifying grace is restored, but God can do this in other ways. As the phrase goes, "We are bound by the Sacraments, God is not".
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St. Bernard, pray for us! Help us to fight for truth, Help us to know truth, Help us to follow our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen. St. Bernard of Clairvaux
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#7
Sep 2, '13, 9:38 pm
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Re: Original sin? What's it all about?
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God is the Banker and Landlord in the story of the Fall, and Adam is the created (hired) caretaker who is given a life estate in the Garden. Adam has free access to the entire garden save for one proviso, not to partake of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. When Adam eats the fruit, he violates the agreement he has with God, and forfeits any rights he has to continue living in the Garden. He dies the death of seperation from God. Also, since he has taken what he had no right to take, and since he had no power to replace it, he incurred a blood debt to God. (In the Genesis story, Adam and Eve were not given permission to be fruitful and multiply. Personally I think the fruit Adam and Eve ate is an allegory for the marital act, where they sought to usurp God's creative power. But of course this power is only an illusion, since they both were created beings, and any of their fruit would necessarily not be their creation. But this is the source of the blood debt, since their progeny would be flesh and blood. I think Eve conceived, and Cain and Abel were in her womb.) God in his mercy - knowing Adam cannot repay the sin debt - provides an animal as a sacrifice for Adam and Eve; a sign for all generations that a blood debt is owed. But the blood of animals cannot remove the debt, and serves as interest only payments on the debt. He gives Adam and Eve skins from the animal as a receipt, showing them the manner of making interest payments until a redeemer is found, the skins serving as covering for their debt, and proof the interest payments were being made. Subsequently Adam and Eve are evicted from the Garden, bankrupt and sentenced to wandering the earth, scratching their living from the land. This is Adam's estate, which in turn is inherited by his descendants, until such a time that a redeemer might be found who is able to repay the debt, and release the people of God from the sentence of original sin. Read my disclaimer.
__________________
 NOTICE
-- All of my postings reflect only my opinions and suppositions. Strong
caution is urged when reading my work product, and no warranty as to
its accuracy or veracity is expressed or implied. Read at your own risk.
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#8
Sep 2, '13, 9:58 pm
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Re: Original sin? What's it all about?
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And, if Christ died on the cross for the forgiveness of sin, how - from the catholic perspective - does committing a mortal sin then somehow undo what He did? in the loss of sanctifying grace? Also, could you elaborate on the process of "sincere contrition and confession"? does this refer to another sacrament?
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#9
Sep 2, '13, 11:31 pm
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Re: Original sin? What's it all about?
You can read about original sin in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is a summary of what Catholics believe:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p7.htm You can find some good articles about original sin on the Internet by typing "Catholic teachings on original sin" in your search box.
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#10
Sep 2, '13, 11:35 pm
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Re: Original sin? What's it all about?
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God has given us free will. He does not force us to love Him. The Scriptures illustrated how Jesus didn't go chasing after people when they chose to reject Him and/or His teachings. We choose to be disciples or not to be. There are natural consequences for our choices. God plants in the heart of each of His human creations the desire to know and to love Him. It is God's will that every person to be with Him in Heaven. Even the Hitlers and Stalins of the world. But attaining salvation is not automatic. Faith is not enough to bring us to Heaven. Even the devil believes in God. God calls every person to holiness. He helps us (but does not force us) to be holy. We choose to act on the faith He offers us by what we do or don't do. His graces help us to have faith and act on it. God is love. We don't truly love Him unless we love others.. God helps us to make our lives all about love. We journey in faith hopefully trying to conform our wills to our heavenly Father's will -- by becoming more perfect in love. The concept of sin has been minimized and even totally rejected by many people who proclaim themselves to be believers in God. Many people are easily satisfied about how they love God and others because they have created in their minds who their God is. They have defined God according to what's comfortable or acceptable to them, rather than accepting how God has revealed Himself to humankind. They don't want to be accountable for sins which they don't consider sin. They have a "custom-made" God. Last edited by quiet52; Sep 2, '13 at 11:55 pm.
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#11
Sep 2, '13, 11:40 pm
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Re: Original sin? What's it all about?
Quote:
I understand the concept of in Adam is all humanity, and that all are affected by his sin. There seems to be some disagreement of us inheriting both a sinful nature and inherited guilt (accountable before God for Adam's sin). What are your thoughts?
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#12
Sep 3, '13, 7:03 am
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Re: Original sin? What's it all about?
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We are born with a wounded nature...born without sanctifying grace. Christ gave us a way to have that Sanctifying Grace. However, once we have it, we don't automatically get swooped up into Heaven (at leat most of us don't ). We are still on earth subjected to the temptations of the world and must daily live out our re-Birth in Christ.
__________________
 Husband to my wonderful "mrs ahs" and daddy to 4 beauties Visit my blog: "A Humble Servant's Catholic Blog"
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#13
Sep 3, '13, 7:09 am
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Re: Original sin? What's it all about?
Here is an excerpt from an article I wrote that was primarily focused
on a different topic (Infant Baptism) but was heavily focused on
Original Sin:
"In Adam, all have sinned; in Christ, all are made righteous. Original sin is not a sin we “commit”, but a sin we “contract” or “inherit”...a “state” rather than an action (CCC 402-404). The easiest evidence of this is the fact that none of us are born into Paradise...and ALL off us need salvation...and we ALL have to experience physical death. We are all born in a state of spiritual lacking...spiritual death. Only in Christ do we have salvation and spiritual life. This is because of the sin of Adam...we carry that “stain”, so to speak, of Original Sin... Original Sin, all men contract it “Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble. He comes forth like a flower, and withers; he flees like a shadow and continues not. And dost thou open thy eyes upon such a one and bring him into judgment with thee? Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:1-4) “What is man that he can be clean? Or he that is born of a woman, that he can be righteous?” (Job 15:14) “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me...Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.” (Ps 51:5, 7) “Do not reproach a man who is turning away from sin; remember that we all deserve punishment.” (Sirach 8:5) “What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all; for I have already charged that all men, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin, as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one.””...”since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Rom 3:9-12, etc...and Rom 3:23) “12 Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned – 13 sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the effect of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brings justification. 17 If, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. 18 Then as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience many may be made righteous. 20 Law came in, to increase the trespass; but where sin increased grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Rom 5:12-21) “For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.” (1Cor 15:21-22) “One might even say that Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when Melchizedek met him.” (Heb 7:9-10) “Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come.” (2Cor 5:17) Full Article for complete context: http://daves-ahumbleservant.blogspot...t-baptism.html
__________________
Husband to my wonderful "mrs ahs" and daddy to 4 beauties Visit my blog: "A Humble Servant's Catholic Blog"
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#14
Sep 3, '13, 7:11 am
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Re: Original sin? What's it all about?
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Original holiness in Adam is what is known as Sanctifying Grace. This is the means by which Adam and subsequently you and me share in God's life. Theologically, this is possible because humans are in the image of God. Justice refers to the original harmony within Adam, the harmony between man and woman and the harmony with creation. (CCC 376) Catholicism holds that "Adam had received the state of original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature." (CCC 404) That is the positive side of humankind being in Adam as one body of one man. Perhaps this will be easier to picture. We receive the state of "deprivation" with our human nature. Since Adam's Original Sin is a "done deed" we do not inherit Adam's culpability. We are not accountable for Adam's action before God. Since the Original Sin is the actual shattering of humanity's relationship with divinity, obviously there will be serious consequences when humans no longer have the primary benefits of that state of friendship with God. One of the consequences of Adam's broken relationship with God, is that we lost the original "mastery of self" (harmony within) and thus it was easier to sin, i.e., prefer ourselves and our desires over and against God Who is our Divine Creator. (CCC 377; 405; and 2515) It is a wonderful first step that you "understand the concept of in Adam is all humanity, and that all are affected by his sin." Because that is the basis for John 3:16 and the fact that Jesus Christ is both True God and True Man. Christ's salvific obedience on the cross is the perfect reparation for the disobedience of Adam. (Romans 5: 12-21; 1 Corinthians 15: 21-22) *** Please refer back to posts 12 & 13. Ahs has done a great job while I was working on this post.
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#15
Sep 3, '13, 7:47 am
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Re: Original sin? What's it all about?
Original sin is the reason that ALL of humanity needs a savior, even
those incapable of personal sin (infants or severely retarded people,
for example). If one does not accept the doctrine of original sin, it
becomes difficult to explain why all of humanity needs a savior. In a
nutshell, it is about fallen nature, not personal guilt. I am not
personally guilty for the 'sin of Adam'.
Adam, as the representative of all humanity, was born with original holiness and justice. In other words, he had sanctifying grace given by the Holy Spirit. In his sin of disobedience, he lost that grace for himself and all humanity. Jesus salvific act of love (His life, death, and resurrection) not only merits for us the forgiveness of sins, but the return of the Holy Spirit Who brings us the grace that saves! Jesus laid down His life to atone for our sins and reconcile humanity to our Father in heaven. Jesus' work saves us from the "second death" (Rev 2:11) if we accept His free gift of grace, repent of our sins, have faith in Him and walk in His way. However, Jesus did not save us from other effects of original sin-- i.e., we still die a physical death. The role of baptism is that it is the Sacrament through which God initially brings back the grace of the Holy Spirit. It is in this "washing of regeneration" (Titus 3:5) that we are "born again of water and Spirit" (Jn 3:5). Baptism of infants is done on the faith of the parents (it may be compared to circumcision in this respect), but at some point we must develop our own faith. For it is through faith that grace comes (cf Eph 2:8). Mary was not born with original sin. She had the grace of the Holy Spirit from the moment of her conception. This is why she was greeted by the angel as "full of grace". Babies are born with original sin. This is why we believe in infant baptism. (That is not to say that we believe unbaptized babies automatically go to hell. The Church teaches that God is not bound by the Sacraments--- He can "baptize" a baby Himself so we trust all unbaptized infants to the mercy of God)
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Blessings, Prayer_Warrior Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God. Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love. 1 John 4:7-8 |
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